One Bad Shot Won't Kill Your Career

One Bad Shot Won't Kill Your Career

Built on Solid Rock Podcast – Episode 8

Golf is a brutal teacher.

It exposes your mindset faster than almost anything else.

One bad swing can ruin a hole- but it does not have to.

One bad hole can ruin a round. In golf, if you let frustration take over, one bad moment can snowball into a complete collapse.

Business works the same way.

In Episode 8 of the Built on Solid Rock Podcast, Shaun and John break down the connection between golf, business, recruiting, and leadership through one simple principle:

Play the shot in front of you.

Too many people let one mistake define the next decision. A bad meeting. A lost deal. A failed hire. A rough quarter. Instead of resetting, they carry the frustration into the next opportunity and compound the damage.

That is where careers stall.

Not because of failure.

Because of the inability to recover from it.

The reality is this: one bad shot does not kill your career. But letting that shot control the next ten absolutely can.

That is why resilience matters.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Built on Solid Rock podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

I'm here with my compadre Sean Bowen. How's it going today, Sean? Oh, pretty good. I got my uh Zin, I got the Zin bonies going. I got the coffee. Um just a really great day.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Really great day. It's uh April. I know. It's 82 degrees outside. And what a perfect, what a perfect day to talk about what we're gonna talk about next. Golf. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

My favorite four-letter word.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yes, yes. You know, you know what they say about golf, don't you, Sean? Um I don't know. How about you tell me? Okay. Well, there's there's two things you can be in life you can be really, really bad at and still have fun. And one of them is golf. Absolutely. I'll let you, I'll let you think about what the other one is. Okay. All right. So so he's I I want to talk about golf, but I also want to talk about business. Because I mean, really, in reality, golf, business, um, there's a lot of there's a lot of similarities between between the two. So in in golf and in business, you have to find out you have to find resilience. I mean, we watched the Masters this last week. Rory McElroy had his second win. I mean, the second win, right? And there's so many storylines in that second win. Is that the tournament where they hand out the blue jackets? No, those are the green jackets. Come on now. You're wearing that, you're wearing a master shirt for heaven's sake. I am, I should know. I mean, this is authentic. It really it really is authentic. So, so just just to recap really, really quickly, we don't want to get boring with it, but in the first two rounds, Rory was absolutely dominating. I mean, he he had he had the biggest lead after the second round in masters history. It was a six-shot lead, okay? It was just it was nuts. I mean, he dominated the course. He dominated it.

unknown 1:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

But then he came back in the third round and it was like he was playing with his hands around his throat. That bad. I mean, it was it was so bad. I mean, he choked. It was he was choking, making bad mistakes, making bad shots. I mean, when you have that kind of lead in the in the masters tournament, especially on moving day, what you need to do is you need to think through and you need to make some more conservative plays. I mean, Jack Nicholas said just hit the center of the green. That's what you that's what you do. All that's all you have to do. Hit the center of the green. And that's what in 2019, when Tiger won it the last time, he said um Jack Nicholas was speaking in the back of my mind on on hole number 16. He was saying, just hit the back, just hit the center of the green. Rory made some Rory made some bad mistakes and he wound up being tied going into the last round of the masters. And then another subplot was Scotty Scheffler, was six shots back or five, five or seven shots back, whatever he was, but he came all the way back on Sunday to be within one stroke. He wound up losing by one stroke. Long story short, Rory came back roaring back on Sunday. He was up and down and up and down, and it was amazing. And meanwhile, Scotty Scheffler was coming back. I mean, he was he was roaring back at the same time. But it was just, it was just it was an amazing tournament. It was an amazing tournament to watch. But the thing that I learned from that tournament was, and and that that comes to my mind in golf, is that one bad shot does not make the round go away. Just one bad shot does not make the round go away. Now the reality is that a lot of golfers, especially recreational golfers like myself, one bad shot oftentimes just turns into a second bad shot and into a you're a recreational user, huh? Yeah. And well, and into a third bad shot, into a fourth bad shot. It would, you know, it it it multiplies itself. And why is that? Why, why is that? Um why why is it that people in business don't just focus on that shot that's directly in front of them versus versus instead of focusing on the it a lot of times they'll focus on the shot that's behind them versus the shot that's in front of them. Okay? Talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Well, and you know, the first thing that goes to my mind, you know, one thing that I think is applicable to all recruiters, um, or even potentially outside of recruiting, I I think of counter offers. But maybe you're own a construction company or an estimator, and you're like, man, I was 99% sure I was gonna land that bid, and then all of a sudden you get the call, right? Um, and we've had a number of counteroffers accepted this year. And even in those processes, like there's I would say 75, at least 75%, and I can I think that's a conservative number, at least 75% of them were things that we could not have done anything different, right? Like literally things outside of our control, things that we um went through. And so if if if I were to say, okay, those were the bad shots, and I would just uh you know, just sit back and dwell on there. What could have my production been? What could have my commission check been? What what what could have what coulda, what could have, then all you do is you just sit there and you live in that, right? You live in that. And and it and and so I think that um in this business, and this applies to being business owners as well, is that you have to have kind of a short memory. You have to, I tell my guys, and and uh, and and I'll kind of ask you the same question, Mac, but I I tell my guys, um you can be mad for like 10 minutes, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

And I don't know if it was Ben Hogan. It was either Ben Hogan or another great golf teacher. Oh, it was Butch Harmon with Tiger Woods. Okay, you know, and by the way, we should get Tiger Woods Uber's phone number. You taught me how to use the Uber app.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I did out in Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

You should, you should, you should probably teach.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Well, I was hoping to throw in a uh a Tiger Woods joke like what happened Tiger came in and crashed the masters or something. Right. I saw a video of that. Was that real? That video I saw? Uh no, I don't think it was. Blue jacket ceremon ceremony, or is that AI? I can't tell the difference. But um, you know, the the the point is though, is that where you're going on that quote though, right? Like for me, it's like you can be mad for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

You can be mad for five. Butch Harmon said you can be mad for five seconds after a bad shot.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, and golf is a little bit more quick, quicker pace, but it was the same principle though, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Basically, basically, you just have to you just have to walk on as you're walking between from from your shot to the next shot. You've got a few minutes just to just to let it all out and then just focus on the next shot.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Focus on what's ahead.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

And that's the biggest, and that's the biggest thing in recruiting in our day-to-day in everything that we do is is bathed in failure. Every day we get punched in the face. I mean, literally, we don't want to say the other thing that we usually say. We get punched in the face. So we get gut punches day in, day out. Like, I mean, the we have the easy ones. We have we we call we're we're making calls and not interested. That's an easy one. Okay. What do we do? We move on to the next, we have to move into the move on to the next call. Um, we get we get deals that don't close, don't close down, and we can go in there and we can spend all of our time thinking about that. And worse yet, we can spend time babysitting deals, right? We can be, oh, I've got I've got a deal going, you know, somebody sent out an offer, yay, and and and my and my um candidate is looking at that offer, woo, and and and we're sitting there and we're waiting for him to come up with an answer instead of making more calls and making more outreaches. So you know, we kind of kick back. So we also we also kind of get into the bad habit of laying back into our successes as well as l living in our failures.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, our we have a saying, right? Everything is falling apart. Everything, everything is it's not to say that we're like totally pessimistic, right? Because I think if you just drown yourself in pessimicity, which you I know you're a doctor, is that a word? I think it is. Pessimicity. No, that sounds like a George Bush word or a Kamala word. Um, but uh, you know, you don't want to drown yourself in that, but but there is a real thing with that, right? Like, we're gonna operate in such a way that everything is falling apart, okay? You have three offers out there, wonderful. Just be mentally prepared, and especially with our new recruiters, we like to mentally prepare them. Like, hey, I get it, dude. You've got two or three offers out there, you've done great. Keep doing what you're doing. Just be mentally prepared, though, for none of those to go through. Okay, because we've been doing this for a while, but I'm kind of curious because you're, you know, you're a golfer, right? A right, what you know, you called it a recreational golfer. I think you're a little bit what's above a recreational. Is that like is that like you have a prescription? You have a prescription?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

My handicap, my handicap. So the average handicap in the United States of America is 15. My handicap is right now at 13. It's early in the season. Yeah. Um, so I'm I'm a little bit better than a than a than a than an average golfer, yeah. But I'm not quite as good as those guys that I played.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah, but you know, you you you know, you you golf a lot, and I've golfed with you a lot. Um, and how do you, when you're, you know, from from the bad shot, which you experience quite a bit, from the bad shot, you know, after you hit that bad shot, and then you're walking up to the new one, what kind of keeps you thinking forward? Like how do you how how do you mentally handle you know hitting it into the trees or into the rough, complete opposite direction? Like, what do you actually look like? What process in your mind is going on?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Well, you know, I and I think it was Ben Hogan also. I just keep going back to Ben Hogan and said the the longest six inches is golf is between your ears.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Well, for you that's like like eight inches.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

You got a pretty big head. Well, I don't have a forehead, I have a five head. So I mean it's just you know, I'm I'm like Peyton Manning. So so what it it is it is a training, it really is a training that you can only play the shot that's in front of you. You can only play the next shot, right? You can't you can't undo the mistake. Now we have a lot of people have the famous mulligan or the breakfast ball. You don't get you don't get mulligans or breakfast balls in business or in work. Sometimes when you do, they're they're full, they're full of grace, okay? But what you got to do is focus on the next shot. So just to put it as an example, you know, in our business, in our business, you can't you you you have to keep on just dialing. You have to just keep on dialing. In sales, it's the same way. Every every no gets you closer to a yes. Okay. So when I hit it into the trees, or I hit it into the water, or I hit it in, I hit it in, I try to focus on letting that shot go, walking up to the next shot, and thinking into the next thinking into the next shot. Um, when a really, really good caddy is going to say, they're gonna hand you a club and they're gonna ask you the question, are you good with that? Are you good? Yes, I'm good. Are you committed? Yes, I'm committed. So you have to commit to that shot. You have to commit to all the practice that went into that shot. Okay. So these guys, these professionals, they hit a hundred balls every single day with every single club in their bag. Okay, that's 1,300 balls. Okay. Why did they do that?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I've seen John Daly, you know, you and I did security for John Daly for like five years, and we've got stories. We might have to do a podcast just like on John Daly's stories. On John Daly's stories, and like we need to get John Daly on a podcast. I would love to get some get some good boys up here, right? We'll do it after 12, of course. But get some good get get some good boys up here. But um, you know, he was one of those guys, and you and I would do security for him uh standing at the driving range, and he would hit about 10 golf balls. But he also wasn't winning. But he would do it, but he would do it, he would do a lot of them, he would do a lot of them one-handed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

With this, well, it's kind, you know, he's got this down, this motion right here, and doing this right here, right? Yeah, but the guy's got the best, most natural talent in golf. But here's the thing: not everybody in business has natural talent, okay? Everybody has untapped potential in business, okay? And where do you get that? Where do you where do you develop that untapped potential or where do you discover that untapped potential? You do so by practice, right? Why do we tell people to make 60 calls a day? Just because we want them to stay busy? No, because early on in your career, you need to learn how to talk on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

And you need to learn how to hear no, right? So there's this mental aspect of getting rejected or rejected. I mean, it's kind of probably like you in high school, right? Like, hey, will you go to prom with me? No. Hey, will you go to prom with me? No. Hey, will you go to prom with me? No, right? Like you got, you know what I mean? So it's the same principle.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Well, you know, you you're making up that story because actually, actually, in both my prompts and even before I was a junior, I got asked a prompt. So that's that's you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

I've been asked a prom too from another school, and there's a whole nother story on that. There's usually, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So you're basically like a you're basically like a Democrat. You're just telling stories that are true about yourself and you're putting them on me. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Bro, I I is this a debate? Do I get my 30 seconds for a body?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

No, you do not get your I mean here's the thing. I mean, the we have to in in in golf and in life and in business, you have to learn how to get up from your failure.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Everything great that you've learned how to do, you've learned from failure. Okay. You learned how to ski in the last couple years. How many times, how many times did you fall down as you were as you were learning how to ski?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

So, and and and this is the this is good because I I tried to ski for the first time. So my wife grew up skiing, she's one of those families. The first time that my wife took me skiing out at Great Bear here, um, I went down the bunny hill a couple times. I was like, okay, I got it. I think I even had a lesson. Every hill at Great Bear, by the way, for you people out in Montana, every hill at Great Bear is a bunny hill. But they have a bunny bunny hill. Um, and so I had a a lesson, a 30-minute lesson, and then the lesson was over. My, you know, I was like, hey, I'm gonna go down the big hill, okay, the big bunny hill. And I went down that hill, first time ever skiing, and it was the most fearful experience I've had in my life, like doing um a sport, right? I've I've done tubing, I've tried water skiing, I've done knee boarding, you know, you're getting flipped on the boat. There's been some fearful, and I I mean, I rolled, I went, I was going so fast, I had to like jump and do it, and I didn't ski for four years. But I was like, man, I really want to ski. So, you know what I did uh two years ago? I took like three or four lessons before I did the big hill. And now I'm not a professional, but you can have fun with it. Yeah, I can have fun with it, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

And the thing is is that when I was learning how to ski, practice, yeah. It's a it's the same thing. When I was learning how to ski, it was every time I fell down, I learned a better way not to fail.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I just kept on, I just kept on, I kept I kept on trying.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Well, and I remember like my first time golfing, because you know, when we were over at the other company, you'd go golfing. I'm like, what's so fun about golfing? Then you and I went to that, uh maybe like a year after you were there, we went to that um uh what do you call it? Like a store where they sell used equipment, bought a pair of $45 golf clubs, and then I, you know, started golfing. And and I think for me, and it kind of going back to like what you said, like I would say, and that's why I like golf. Like I like golf from a recreational standpoint in terms of the social aspect of it. Same way in the office, right? There's always a social fun aspect. But the one thing that I really honestly enjoy about golf is a mental aspect because I'm not that good. I'm probably like an 18 handicap. I can be a 15 on a really like if I'm really dialed in playing for money. But um I learned that I have to, I have the capability to get over things really quickly, you know. So part of that's developed over my last nine years of golfing, also in recruiting. But I have to agree with you on that point. Like, there is some type of training that you can learn from, whether it's golfing or skiing or other activities, walking, asking girls out to prom.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

You you watch you watch your little kids learning how to walk. They they fall, they fall more than they walk. Yeah. And that's and and that's the thing. The thing about golf is that you have to learn how to embrace you have to learn how to embrace failure. You have to look at every shot. You ask me what what if you're in the woods or something like that. I look at that shot as a challenge. You know, and some people say, okay, we got to take the hero shot. Some people say sometimes you just gotta knock it out into back into the fairway, take take your medicine. There's there's different times and different events when you do when when you have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

And you also have to be realistic with your skill set.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Exactly. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Just like in business. I mean, we're working on a deal yesterday where we have a potential client that's looking at buying a company. And I went up to that recruiter because of it's a long story, I won't get into it. But I told that recruiter, like, if you want to call up that company, not our client, but if you want to call up the company that they're interested in buying, go ahead. You know, you've been recruiting for six months. I feel comfortable making that call because I have made those calls, you know. So if you want to do it, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yep. I mean, what's what's your process? What's your process for resetting after a bad income? Uh and not bad income, bad outcome.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, well, a bad outcome usually results in a bad income. Not necessarily not necessarily. You know what I mean? Not not necessarily, short term maybe. Um, I I feel like I'm battle-hardened at this point. When you have that attitude of everything's falling apart, it doesn't matter. Dude, like I am so ingrained mentally into the process of this job that I know that even if this candidate tells me all the right things, and even if this company exceeds your expectations, I already know that there is a prob that that there's a relatively high probability things aren't gonna work out. And so what do I revert back to? I revert back to just getting two people to talk. So like I never count, and this is honestly probably overly pessimistic, but I think especially being in leadership, I I have to be, I have to be at that level. Um, like, so I don't have this process. I it's already built in, it's already ingrained.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

It's like we were talking about in it the practice earlier. I mean, when you're hitting 100 balls a day, you have a go-to shot that you can that you can use to get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I'm also very confident though, too, at the same time. But that confidence, it it starts in the beginning of the process. So like I know this that if I do everything right, and if I do everything, you know, within within uh the bounds that that that that I'm confined to morality, honesty, integrity, and hustle. All those things. And if I know if I do everything the right way, I feel great about that. So even when something goes wrong, I can look back and point at myself, and you know, we've Ryan uh is you know, he's had some bad follow-ups. And I I can go back and say, Ryan, I was totally dialed in with you on every part of that process, and I know that you did everything right, so you should feel good about that. Now just go find somebody else, right? And so there's so so the process doesn't happen. Take the next shot. Yep, take the next shot. Correct. Don't focus on that last shot. The process doesn't happen though after the outcome. Right, the process, you you you hit it early on. The process starts with the first call, right? With the first call of the job order, the first call of the potential candidate. The process actually starts there to mitigate anything as much as you can. And the process is actually within recruiting, the process is actually ongoing. You know, there's a whole it's it's an ongoing thing. So when we do get to the finish line, right, um, we can say, hey, we have done everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, and you have to realize what it is that you can control and what you can't control. I can't control the wind. I can't control the I can't control the water content or the rain, or I can't control, I can't control whatever else is going on in my brain that day. I I I can only control what I can control. And so we have to be able to, it's it's through practice, it's through consistency, it's through going through the going through the process, following the rules. Golf is a golf is a game of rules, and business is a game of rules as well. Following those rules, following the process, doing the things that you know, close deals and get things done consistently, and you're still going to fail.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Okay, so here's a question for you. So let's say you take that shot and you did something that was within your control that went wrong. Right. Right? Because not everything, we don't do everything right, whether it's in golf or in business. So how do you overcome that then? Where you're like, yeah, I use the wrong club. I I totally use the wrong club. Oh, if that happens all happens all the time. And so how what does that process look like? Because I talked about the process of controlling the controllables. How do you control the controllables when they go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

When they go wrong, if that makes sense. Is it really no, it doesn't make sense, but that's okay. It's I did go up to USD for a while. It's really not um controllable at that point, right? If you if you if you pick the wrong tool or if you picked if you pick the wrong club, it's really that's really not something that's within your control, right? Well, it is. It's it's something it's a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

So the question really is No, if you're if you're listen, dude, if you're a hundred and okay, at 120 yards out, no wind, clear shot, what club you pulling? 54 degrees. Okay, let's say you pull the accidentally or maybe on purpose. You weren't feeling good that day, so you clubbed clubbed up to a to a to a gap. So so there's an example where that was a mistake or something that that that you made, right? And you, you know, you you made it. It might have been a mistake unknowingly, but you pulled the wrong club.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Whether it's a mistake that's within your control or out of your control, the reaction has to be the same. You have to put that shot behind you. Oh no, I hit, I hit the wrong, I hit the wrong club. No wonder I'm over. Now I got to take this shot that I'm that's that's setting in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

So what are you gonna do when you come up to another 120-yard shot?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I'm gonna, I'm going to I'm going to not make that same mistake again. Right. I'm going to make darn sure that's a 54 or 44, not a 45 or something, or whatever. Or a f or or a 50. Well, right. I don't know if they do they make a 45? I'm sure. I'm sure they do. I'm that's probably like a nine iron. But anyway, so so but that's that's what it is. It's resilience. It's it's in golf and in business, you have to have resilience. You have to be able to take, you have to be able to roll with the punches. And I've learned on the golf course. You have to learn to laugh at yourself. You know? I mean, you can't play golf angry.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Well, you can, just not very well. I mean I've seen you play golf angry before. Well, I'm not good enough to get angry. I've got a story to know this guy. No, we're not going to tell the story.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I'm just going to give the example of Robert McIntyre and Rory McElroy, both from the same country, both have won the same tournaments. You know, both have you know the same handicap, everything else. But Robert McIntyre at the Masters this year absolutely positively melted down. Okay. I mean, we we caught him. I think I even saw something on that. We caught him. They caught him on camera. You know, he he made made one bad shot, shouted out an F-bomb. That that one bad shot turned into multiple bad shots. He wound up taking a nine on that hole. And then as he's walking off the green, he flipped off the green. Why did he take a nine on that hole? Because he did not let the first shot go. Okay. Rory McElroy came up on the same hole. He put the ball in the same water as McIntyre did. Rory McElroy walked up there, he looked at the shot, he thought about it. He dropped his ball. He got the right club out of his bag. He put the ball up on the green, and he got it, he got a bogey. Two different scenarios, right? Two different scenarios, two different results. And that is all the mental game. That's not the mechanic game. They've they've got the same mechanics. They they they they know these things, but it's the mental, it's the mental game. So I don't know. Maybe Robert McIntyre didn't have a good breakfast that morning. Maybe they didn't have scotch eggs downstairs or whatever. Whatever happened to him. Maybe he got in a fight with his wife. I don't know. But it's it's that's what I'm saying. You have to be able to go backwards and you have to be able to stop and say, okay, I made a mistake. What can I do to resolve that mistake? What can I do to go there and make it right? And the and the way that you make it right is not by getting angry or flipping off the green. The way that you make it right is to go back to the basics, go back to the shots that you've practiced over and over and over again. And it's the same thing in sales, it's the same thing in recruiting, it's the same thing in business.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

And most recreational golfers are not even good enough to get angry.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

You know what I mean? Like, like it's like, why are you throwing your clubs? Like you're like a 25 handicap. You listen, you're not good enough to be that angry. You see what I'm saying? Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And and and the funny thing is, too, is that even when we make good shots, we get we get angry, right? Uh we we have the scene of Sergio Garcia at the Masters, okay? He's on hole number two with John Rom on on Sunday, and he hits a ball. And you're like a savant.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

I mean, your ability to like remember these things is like like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Probably because I've watched the Masters five times since the Masters happened, the whole Masters. So I I mean over and over and over and over again, just to get that just to get these things into my mind. I'm I'm kidding. Anyway, so he hits this ball. He hits this ball. I think it was on number two. No, it concerns me.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

You've watched it once and you he remembers every shot. It's kind of concerning. Did you get dropped on the head when you were a kid?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Did you eat paint chips as a child? Why? Anyway, so he hits this, he hits this ball, it's it and you're watching the tracker, and it's it's going good. And he immediately, when he hits the ball, slams his club down and then goes and whacks it and breaks his driver on this. Are you able to get a new driver that you're not? You're done. That the clubs that are in your bag at the beginning are the clubs in the beginning. Here's the funny thing. He outdrove his playing partner and it was right down, it was right down the middle. He completely lost his marbles, but everything still went right. He hit a good shot and he didn't realize it. So that's a kind of I mean well, and that happens in business. It does.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

I mean, it does. It's like like um, you know, I'm just trying to think of examples. I mean, I I I go to uh I mean, I don't know, maybe you can think of an example.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Well, the pros are so good that if they hit it just slightly off center, they'd know it. Okay. I got a I got a set of golf, I bought a set of golf clubs from a a guy that played at the uh Stanford International a couple years in a row. Tom, or what's his name? Is it Tom? Janza, Ryan Janza. So so he he has uh he his his seven, eight, and nine, nine iron and pitching wedge, they have ball mark, it has a ball mark right in the middle of that club face. Right in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

That is so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

It's just like, and and you can tell where he hit that ball consistently. Now, I'm I'm rubbing it off, you know. I'm using those clubs a little bit, and I'm rubbing, I'm kind of rubbing it off because it's it's the the that mark in the middle is getting a little bit wider, okay? Um, because I don't I don't hit the ball on on the schnuss like that. But the point being is is that you can get so good at your craft and do everything right, and mistakes can still happen. Not mistakes, but outcomes can still come out the way that you don't want yeah, outcomes outside of those things. Yeah. How do you how do you deal with it when outcomes, when we do everything right, but the outcome is not what you want it to be?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Well, you know, it's like right now we're working on a deal, and I have to obviously keep it confidential in terms of what's going on, but we have this candidate, he gave us all the right reasons of why he's looking, right? We went down the clamps model, and everything was in alignment. I uh interviewed with with one of my clients. I mean, and everything from the money, the compensation, the role, the the potential growth opportunity, everything is so in alignment with what this guy has been looking for. But he's been hee-hawing around for three days. At first, it was like, no, I'm not gonna take it. And I was mad, dude. I'm like, bro, like this is a life-changing opportunity, right? And and I'm looking at this thing, and now I have peace. You know how I have peace with it? Because I'm like, and it's not dead yet. We're resuscitating it, as we say, but we have done everything right. I mean, and beyond, beyond. So, like, think of like the best close, close, tight, you know, deal you can think of this as like you know, it's got like the jaws of life on it, right? And so I was mad for about 10 minutes, and then I I I I was able to say, you know what, like there's not one thing I can go back on to that that I did wrong. Like, there isn't. And like if there was, I'd be like, oh crap, I should have done that. And so the question is, right, how do you move on from that? Well, at this point of doing this for over a decade, I can move on from it knowing that I am closing those gaps really tight in the process. Now, if I didn't do those things, it would I would probably be like whatever, John Rahm or whoever hit it in the waters, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So Robert McIntyre versus Rory McElroy. Yeah, Robert. Robert McIntyre, what did he do? He reacted. He reacted.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

He reacted, you can't do that in golf, you can't he let it carry over and carry over and carry over and carry over.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Right. Whereas Rory McElroy responded. He said, Now what now I have this club that I have to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

But then like here's the other thing. So like we just closed the deal yesterday that we're gonna hang this morning. So like I thought that one is like 50%. Well, it got closed yesterday, so we might have missed this shot over here, but this shot was a was a was a birdie. Yeah, right. And we're you know, like there's all these things out here. So you're like, okay, we're we're moving on, we've done everything. So you you know what? You have to have a short memory. You do you have to have a short memory, otherwise you will just drown in defeat. And you certainly don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

No, you don't, you don't. I mean, here's another here here's another and here's another big problem. I think we see this in business, we see this in in the recruiting business, and I know it goes into sales as well. And it's it's huge. What when do you find yourself? I mean, and and where do you observe this in the business in the business here where people overthink versus execute? Again, we gotta want to go back to practice. These guys are hitting a hundred golf balls a day with every single club. They have their go-to, they have their go-to shots, they have their go-to, they they have they they know they know how long the distance is of every single club in just about every single situation. They they know they know these things. But sometimes you can get on the golf course and you can overthink everything. You can completely overthink everything. And Sean, this is this is not you. No, no, but you know who I'm thinking of. So I know, but when you get out on the golf course, you take that 25-year-old Nike driver that you've got in your back. Yeah, which I know. And you and you and you go out there and you swing away. Whereas a guy like me, who golfs quite a bit more than you, I I'm I'm think oftentimes I'm up there thinking about okay, I've got to take, I've got to take it back in this way, it's gotta come up through at this angle. And I'm thinking of all these things. There's a thousand things in my mind instead of just swing and hit the golf ball.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Well, and I think that there's a difference there, right? Like, I'm a a a recreational golfer to an extent, and I'm just I'm a John Daly guy, you know, even with like my decorum on the course. It and rip it. Grip it and rip it, dude. I'm driving my golf, I've got my own golf cart, so I don't have the I'm not monitored. I drive it right up to the green, you know. I I've got the John Daily. That's you. That is me. I've got my John Daly like swagger going on because like that's just how I play. Do you have do you put do you eat sunflower seeds and spit out the seeds on the green? I I am not one of those guys. I do not do that. That is a that that is a sin. And that you should be removed. Um, because I'm totally not that guy. Um, but you know, I think of like my older brother Ryan. You and I have golfed with him a few times. He he and he's once again, he's probably worse than I am. And he'll take like four practice swings, and it's like, bro, you're not even good enough to like be thinking that much. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, so so how does that apply to our I love Ryan. I do too. Shout out to Ryan. But you think of there's these different you you have to know your skill set. Like, you're not good enough to be thinking for five minutes before this shot and to be taking four practice swings. And I'm not either. And I'm just one of those guys, like, I'm a pace golfer, bro. Like when I can get up there and get going, yeah, rhythm. Like, like, let's go, let's go, let's go. But in recruiting, it's oh, this person looks good. I'm gonna look at their LinkedIn profile. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna look at their company, uh, I'm gonna go to Zoom Info. Oh, I I see they, you know, like that, like this person, it's like, no, dude, just pick up the phone and call them. You want to write their biography before you even talk. Listen, I might do that. I might do some deep dive research on them and and formulate something, but you're not good enough. You right now, you just have to do, you just have to do the work. Okay. I might be good enough to put a list together of 10 people and I'm gonna get two or three. You might have to put a list together of a hundred people to get two or three.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Well, and the over what the overthinking does is it's it's it's analysis paralysis. Right, exactly. I'm taking a look at it, I'm taking a look at this person's LinkedIn profile. They look good. What what should I do? I'm just gonna call them. That's what that's what I'm gonna do. And I've gotten and I've gotten pretty much good enough at this point in my career that I can I can pretty much tell this is a person I should call. Within 10 seconds, within 10 seconds, yeah, quickly. But a lot of people what they'll do is is they'll take 25 minutes, literally, and like you said, they'll look at the company, they'll look at the they'll look at the history of the person, they'll go down, even go down the line of every single company, and then they'll they're there's get so much information that they don't go up and swing the club. They don't, they, they, they don't, they don't do that. And like you said, really you're not good enough to do that. The the the key is is in the practice, okay? Just start swinging. Just start swinging, and then it and then you can go from there. Just start swinging, hit hit hit a few balls out there. You gotta hit you gotta hit a whole bunch of balls before you can figure out what is it that I need to work on. And by the way, you really don't even know what it is you need to work on, but a guy can come alongside you, like one of our one of our recruiting managers, they can come alongside you pretty quickly and they can identify the the flaws in your swing, just like a just like a PGA professional. A golf coach. So, I mean, and that and and that's uh and that's that's that's awesome. So here's here's another question for you. How do you simplify the golfers talk about this all the time? Simplify it. Keep it simple, stupid, right? How do you simplify decisions when stakes are high? I mean, how do you just simplify it?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Um, I think that's I think that's something that I I try and you know, you're kind of putting me on a spot, but like, you know, like one thing that we simplify is just getting two people to talk, right? Right? We call them full sends, and the more full sends that you have, the the the the the the more swings you get, the better you're gonna the better outcome you're gonna have, right? So that in our business is like the foundation to the health of your desk, to the health of the business. And so how do I simplify it? It's just like, you know what? We're gonna stack so much, uh, we're gonna stack that pipeline so full that we don't care if we have bad swings or not, because we know that we're gonna get a couple hole in ones, we're gonna get some pars, we're gonna get some birdies. Like, so so how do I simplify it? Well, my form of simplification would be just like just get as many full sends as you as you can.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

When you make a mistake, it's it's making you can you can you can make your mistakes a lot less painful when you have a lot of stuff sitting out there.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

When you have a lot of good shots going on. So it's okay. Yeah, right. It's it's okay. It's kind of like Rory. You're gonna have some that are gonna go well, but just keep stacking it up, keep getting two people to talk, and that's that's one big thing that we not just try and preach, but we try and expose it, right? To kind of like like what does that mean? Like, why are we why are we focusing on this so much? Well, there's a reason for that because we know the business, we've been doing this a long time at a high level, and so we want to simplify it. So on the golf course, it might for people might be different. It might be like, you know what? I'm just gonna every shot's gonna be a new shot. I'm gonna have a clear mind.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Look, the the reality is one of the things I did take away from the masters is that Rory's Rory's fairways hit were very few. But when he missed the fairway, he made up, he made up for it. He just kept on, he kept on playing, kept on playing, and that's the key, and that's the key. So I remember on on Saturday, I don't remember what hole it was on, but he hit it so far left, he was out in the pine straw in the in the woods, he was in jail, he had no clear shot at the green. He left it about probably about he hit his second shot, probably about 70 yards short of the green. And he goes up there, not mad, he's not flipping off the ball. He goes up there, he takes a shot, he steals a birdie. Now the guy, the the other guy hit it right down the fairway, got it up onto the green, two putted, two putted for parr. Rory, Rory gets birdie. So what it is is is consistency and persistency are two very important um things that not where you start, it's where you finish. It's it's exactly correct. It's exactly correct. And nobody writes down right how you got that birdie. Nobody writes it down. It could be the ugliest shot in the world. You know, hole in ones, most hole in ones are complete miss hits. You know, they're they they bounce off of a they bounce off of a uh off of a power line, you know, and or off of a tree or or roll up or bounce up there, bounce up there, and they just happen to hit the pin and go in the cup. I mean, they're just except if you're a pro, you know, you you can, you know, whatever. But that's the point. Not everything is perfect, not everything, not everything goes right the way that you planned it, but if you do things consistently, with persistence, and continue doing it with hustle, we talked about hustle, with all those things, you do it, you do the right thing enough, you're going to be successful. Period. Especially if you can put that, if you can put, if you can lay what happened in the past behind you and go forward, that's what's going to get you success.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Absolutely. I was still trying to figure out what's the other thing you can be bad at, but I guess I'll have to ask you.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Uh you'll have to why don't you why don't you ask your wife?

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Okay. I will do that.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Okay. That's it for episode number episode number eight of the Solid Rock, Built on Solid Rock podcast. I'm John Chisholm. This is Sean Bone. We'll see you in the next one.