Built on Solid Rock Podcast
Built on Solid Rock Podcast is where business, leadership, recruiting, and entrepreneurship come together. Hosted by Shaun Boen and John Chisham, each episode delivers honest conversations, practical insights, and hard-earned lessons on building better businesses, stronger teams, and lasting success. From hiring and leadership to culture, resilience, customer service, and growth, we equip business owners, entrepreneurs, recruiters, and leaders with ideas they can put to work immediately. No corporate fluff. Just real conversations about building businesses and people the right way.
Built on Solid Rock Podcast
Don’t Hire This Person - Real Red Flags We've Seen
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Don’t Hire This Person
Built on Solid Rock Podcast – Episode 6
Bad hires are not a surprise.
They are predictable.
The signs are there. Most companies just miss them. Or worse, ignore them.
In Episode 6, “Don’t Hire This Person,” Shaun and John get direct about what actually leads to bad hires and how to spot the red flags before they cost you.
Because they will cost you.
Time. Money. Momentum. Culture.
And we have all seen it play out in real time. In business. In leadership. Even in the media. When the wrong person is in the wrong seat, the results are obvious.
This is a people business.
And hiring is not an exact science.
But that does not mean it is a guessing game.
Good recruiters do not guess. They guide.
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Hello there. We are taping from the headquarters of the Solid Rock Recruiting Bunker here in Hartford, South Dakota. My name is Sean Bowen, and I am your host today on the Built on Solid Rock podcast with my amigo, John Chisholm. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. John, I kind of want to talk today a little bit about bad hires. Bad hires. And I know you and I have got some nightmares. We've been doing this a long time. We've got some nightmares. But um one that I'm gonna kind of bring up here, and I don't really care about being politically correct. I don't know if my listeners have figured that out yet. Christian Ohm, oh, I'm gonna say she was you're fired. She was fired. But you know, some people will debate with me that, oh no, she just took on another job that they created for her. But what what's kind of what could they have done better?
SPEAKER_02What could the administration have done better? You know, I I I really I really don't know what the administration could have done better. I do remember a conversation I had out on the golf course. I was I was out there and and uh we won't go too deep into it, but uh actually Let's go there, John. No, I don't I don't I don't want to go there. Um but um I'll just put it this way Donald Trump well before well before this cycle had a great admiration for Christy Noel. Great admiration. She was always uh she was always somebody that said the right things at the right time and kind of like I mean, let's just face it, she's a political animal. I mean, that's what she is. I mean, she's she is uh she was built and grown on a South Dakota ranch to come out and and be political. And let me tell you something too. Let me tell you something about Christy. It looks like she grew up in a plastic manufacturing facility now. I don't know. You look at you look at Christy from 20 years ago and you look at and you look at her now, and she looks like she's gotten a lot younger, you know, which which reminds me of a story. You want to hear this story? I absolutely want to hear the story. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if you want to hear the story. And just for the listeners, hide your dogs. You know, right. I mean, there were some red flags. Can we be honest? There were some red flags, okay? She fired cricket. She fired cricket, let's just put it that way. Cricket got the death penalty, okay? He went after some chickens, all right?
SPEAKER_02He went after some chickens, all right? And he and Cricket died of lead poisoning, that's for sure. That's for sure. But uh, I don't even know where I was gonna go with this story. But uh, you heard about you you're Michael Jackson, you heard when he died, right?
SPEAKER_01I I mean I remember I was going to a baseball game. No kidding. I was going to a baseball game in Lenox, South Dakota, of all places, when I heard that Michael Jackson was dead. Hee hee!
SPEAKER_02I got your nose. I got your nose. So I'm just thinking about Chuck Norris. Well, when when he died, they melted him down and made Legos out of them so little kids could play with him.
SPEAKER_01Really? Yeah. Wow. That's that's savage. But let's talk about bad hiring today, right? I mean, we could we could go, you know, there's some pretty well-known bad hires. There's some of the bad hires that people don't know about. But where I want to go with, you know, why I started the whole Christy Gnome thing. And, you know, we're in South Dakota. I think that she did some good things as a governor, but if you're kind of intertwined or tied into state politics, there were definitely some red flags uh before she got appointed to that position. But let's talk about that, dude. Let's talk about that because I know I know you've worked with some candidates, and so have I, that have had some red flags.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's some red flags going on out there. And and and I think maybe this can be be helpful to candidates, hopefully, and also to companies. I mean, obviously. But when we talk to candidates, one of you know, one of the things that we do is we kind of coach them about how they appear, right? Um, one of the disadvantages, there's huge advantages to social media. There's big advantages of social media for sure. Because, like, for example, I I don't know 10,135 people, but 10,135 people follow me on LinkedIn. I don't I don't know that many people, but I'm networking with those people, and and that, and that's a great advantage. But that's also could be a great disadvantage, right? Um, I I I think about I think about uh uh a hire a few years back. We we contacted this person, we uh pre-screened this person, we uh we talked to this person on the phone, we dug in, the person had the right skill set, the person had the right knowledge, the right amount of experience, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Goes in for the final interview, everything hits. It's great. This person's gonna get an offer. A day later, we get a call back. Apparently, his Facebook page is covered with him smoking weed out on the job sites. And this guy's a this guy's a carpenter, you know, he's a union carpenter. And yep, I remember it. The makeup came off, didn't it? The makeup came off. Yep, and and no matter no matter how good you are, your social media can absolutely positively destroy you. And also it can be used as an advantage for when you're hiring, right? So you can you can take a look. So just so you know, if you're a candidate out there, make sure that whatever you have out there on social media, your grandmother could read it and she'd be and she'd be okay with it, you know, or or a company, a professional company wouldn't lose any sleep over hiring you because you might say something crazy or do something crazy on social media that could bring them down. I mean, we all know we all know that uh Coldplay, you know, they they they hadn't cut a record in five years, but they made two singles in one night.
SPEAKER_01Yes, they did. That that was good, man. I I'm so glad that you just dropped that out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. Yeah, but I think the point is, is like in that hiring process, now we as recruiters, we do our darn best, right? We do our darn best to qualify them. And what does that look like? Well, I want to know what their skill set is, I want to get a kind of an understanding of the personality, I want to get an understanding of why they left some of their previous companies. I want to talk to references. Um, that's what we do, okay? Like, we're not flying out there meeting these candidates. Uh, we'd have to have a private jet to go do that, and it would be, you know, it'd be ridiculous. But that's where, like, if I'm working with a company and they're using our services to hire, you know, the guaranteed period always, you know, they don't really care about the fee, but the guaranteed period is always a big deal. And I get it. I get it. But um, that's where I have been really challenging, at least for the last like seven or eight years, is really challenging our clients that we decide to engage with, that you're the one sitting down from the table from them. Okay, you're the one looking at them in the eye. It is just it is the the weight is more on you than it is on me. I'm gonna do my job. Okay. I'm the middleman, I'm gonna bring you somebody that I think is a fit, but it's your job to do some due diligence as well outside of the interview. Okay. And um there are plenty of red flags. I mean, I can tell uh one story, won't get into too many details, but we had a an individual, you know, apply for a recruiting job here. And on paper, perfect fit. I'm not kidding you. We were hiring for a certain division. On paper is a perfect fit. I go on, I'm and I'm I'm talking to the person, I go on to their Facebook profile, and this person, I'm not kidding you, literally has their shirt off wearing a banana hammock. Okay, wearing a banana, but you remember this story, and I'm like, hey, I don't care how good you are, I don't care how good your background is, but when I go to Facebook, that's the first thing I see. No way, no way, Jose, and that's not his name. Culturally, culturally, it doesn't fit, culturally, all of that.
SPEAKER_02It's sick, it's gross, but there were red flags, right? I'm sure that they're you know, I'm sure that they were an extremely, extremely talented and everything else. But the reality is, is that we want to portray professionalism in our in our, you know, hey, and by the way, we we're not talking about First Amendment issues here. We're talking about, we're talking about culture, we're talking about fit, we're talking about the way that we present ourselves out there. I mean, the other the other thing too is, I mean, I've seen red flags. I I've engaged with this person on LinkedIn for quite some time. And I actually wrote a couple blog articles about this as well. But this person on every day, um, I and I get I get it. I understand the frustration. Uh, she had applied for a number of different jobs that she felt she was very qualified. She was very, very qualified for. She was having a lot of frustration getting people to call her back, et cetera, et cetera. And all she would do on LinkedIn is go into and just attack CEOs and corporations for their hiring processes and saying how stupid they are in their interview process and how they and how they treated her and how and how poorly she's been treated in this whole process. And all she did was complain, complain, complain, complain. Could you imagine what kind of nightmare that portrays to a hiring authority?
SPEAKER_01Holy smokes. Oh my lanta. All I could think about is HR problem. That's a huge HR problem. So don't be don't be a Christy gnome. Okay. Don't go and give out over. I'm gonna keep it simple here. Don't go out and give over a hundred million of no bid marketing contracts to an agency that started up what is eight to ten days before that contract was. Don't be that person.
SPEAKER_02Don't be that person that goes outside the state and and has an advertising campaign of meth. We're on it. We're on it, right?
SPEAKER_01Don't be that. I mean, there were red flags. Can we be? I wish can someone give me if you have Donald Trump's one, give me his number. I can I could have told him some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_02Hey, Donald, I mean, yeah, she's great. She's fantastic, she's uh doing a lot of good things for me in this state, but you know, that's my really bad Donald Trump impression.
SPEAKER_01We've got another guy here, Caleb can do a phenomenal. I mean, it's it's great. The best, it's the greatest ever Donald Trump impression. Best, best ever.
SPEAKER_02So so these are things that I again I hope that help candidates because you got to think about you how do you portray yourself in public? I mean, specifically for millions of people to see when you're when you're communicating out there, are you a positive person? Do you bring value to the team? Do you bring uh encouragement to people? Are you are is is your social media, what you're doing out there on social media, is it reflective? It is reflective. You know, uh the the Bible does tell us is that what we how we speak and how we present ourselves is how our heart is, you know, how we present ourselves to the public is revealed, it reveals what's going on in your heart. And so if you if you have a social media profile that portrays someone that is positive, someone that is a team player, somebody that is bringing value to other people, bringing value to their career, is passionate about their career, is passionate, you know, uh versus somebody that does nothing but complain and nothing, and I mean, are you which which one are you gonna hire?
SPEAKER_01Well, and that that that's exactly right. I mean, you know, we've had some bad hires, right? I'd be lying if I told you, and I'm not just talking about internally, I'm talking about with our clients. Not every, I mean, we're dealing with people. We're dealing with people, right? So we our our batting average is pretty darn good, okay? But every now and then we hit a couple dinks. But the but the whole thing is this is that when it comes to hiring, if you're working with a recruiting firm or even if you're not, the hiring is really, I emphasize that it's on the company hiring that person. Okay. It's really up to them to do their due diligence. And there are companies out there, um, and maybe we need to reach out to them for because I know we're reaching out to Zinn right now to hook up some uh advertising. So we'll be in touch with you. We're gonna be in touch with uh Tucker Carlson on Elps, whoever gets our bit, you know, whoever you know bites first will get it. But there are companies out there that actually scrape um social media websites for people. Maybe we need to reach out to them too. You know what I'm saying? But there are companies out there because the reality is like you don't want to hire, you don't want to hire somebody who's an HR nightmare. You don't want to hire somebody who's gonna steal from your company. You don't want to hire somebody who is uh you know doing keg stands and smoking weed on their in and then like and they're doing that, they're they're portraying that into a public profile. You don't want to hire somebody wearing a banana hammock and they have that as their face as their Facebook picture. You don't like you don't want that, okay?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, hey, and and by the way, we're we're not we are all about First Amendment, okay? I mean, obviously, we're all about the First Amendment, we're all about freedom of religion.
SPEAKER_01We're not putting anybody in jail for for these things, but there are consequences for saying and doing stupid things. Right. There is absolute consequences for that. And I'm probably gonna have a few consequences from from these podcasts. We make these choices for sure, but Christy Noma's pretty litigious. We'll probably get a letter. Well, I'm sure, I'm sure we will, but uh we've dealt with that though, haven't we?
SPEAKER_02We have, we've dealt with it many, many times. So what are some other things, Sean? I mean, uh what are some other things, Sean, that um, you know, what we talk about, the onus is on the person that's hiring. Okay, when we bring a candidate to a company, what we've done is we've sourced, we've asked questions, we've talked to references, we've we're bringing a person that we put our name behind. But that is not Yeah, that's not where it stops. That's not where it stops. So, what are some other things that companies can do that that would be helpful within the interview process? What whether it be, you know, we've already talked about looking at social media, but what are some other questions maybe that could be asked, or maybe some things that they can do that would make a better hire, better, more long-term hire?
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think um, you know, here's the one thing is, and we do this at Solid Rock Recruiting, we do team interviews. So we kind of have our own process. Um, but I think that's a huge we some of our clients where we have like the best relationships with, where the candidates last the longest there are companies that it's not just the owner saying, Yep, we're gonna hire you, but it might be that person's manager, it might be an HR person. They they they they quite literally bring in a team, but what they also do is they might uh individually interview that person. They might do it collaboratively or they might do it individually. The other thing that I like doing, and you and I do do this typically, um, if they're obviously if they're local here, bring them out to eat. See how, and this is so simple because you hear us, but I want to see how do they treat the waiter or the waitress? How do they uh how do they eat their food? How do what do they order? I mean we coach people. Yeah, and we've coached people on that. Um, because like if it's a person who's just sitting there scarfing down food and they're not really talking, it's like, like, okay, is that food more important or is engaging in, you know, these are small things. Uh I'm not saying I'm gonna make a solely base off of how they eat the food. Maybe they're really hungry, so there's nuances there. But how are they gonna treat the waiter or waitress? Can they say thank you? Are they gonna be patient when they're ordering? And especially if you have bad service. Are they just gonna be, you know, kind of like you or me? Hey, where's the waiter at?
SPEAKER_02You know, we talk, we talk about this with our candidates when we're when we're preparing them for interviews. I mean, here's the thing. Um, I mean, again, another story. We we we had a guy that that that we had sent on an interview that he had to fly from a from a different state, and um the the the company put him up in a hotel and said and said, uh, we're gonna we're gonna go out to dinner tonight. Well, the guy, the guy looked at the menu and he ordered the most expensive thing on the menu, the number one top thing on the menu, um, and ordered, you know, felt free to order drinks and the whole thing and and and just assumed that the the company was gonna, you know, foot the bill, foot the bill for this whole thing. And so that's something else the company was kind of kind of looking at because a lot of the lot of the people that we hire, they they're taking they're taking vendors out to dinner or they're taking vendors out to lunch. And they're yeah, I mean, are they gonna be, you know, concerned about the company's money? Yes, exactly. Are they gonna be are the are they gonna be conservative? Are they going to make are they gonna make good fiscal decisions for the company to save money on that bottom line? But the but the other thing that we talk about is like you said, how how do we how do we eat? I mean, what do we order? Well, number one, don't order the most expensive thing on the menu. Number two, don't order chicken wings. I mean, that that's that's just dumb. Don't order, don't order messy food.
SPEAKER_01But here's the other thing is your car clean or messy? Yeah. Okay, because what happens to the owner of the company says, hey, uh, my car's at the shop, but let's go out to eat. Can we take your car? And there's cigarette butts in there, you got Burger King, you know, uh bags sitting on the ground, rappers. It's a complete mess. Now, I'm not saying that is purely indicative, right, of of that person, but everything leaves an impression. Every action leaves an impression. And you as a company who's interviewing, take note.
SPEAKER_02So, like, you know, like for example, when again, when we're when we're talking to our candidates, we we encourage them to map out, map out the road, show up early, show up 15 minutes early. Don't flip anybody off or cut anybody off on the, you know, don't be rushing into the interview, you know, driving like a maniac because you we actually had something happen where that person cut that person off on the way to the interview, and the person that was interviewing that person was the person they cut off. And that interview didn't wind up happening. We also talk about when you walk into the building, um, you know, go up to the receptionist or whomever, treat them with respect, right? Treat the treat you don't know who's who's interviewing you, you have no idea. So you got to treat everybody treat everybody with respect. Take your if you have a smartwatch on, take it off. If you have your phone, unless unless your uh spouse is pregnant and and and you gotta be ready to receive an emergency phone call.
SPEAKER_01But communicate that. But communicate that. Hey guys, just so you guys know, my wife is nine months pregnant. Yeah, I've got my watch on here. So if I look at it, she might be going into labor. But that is all communication, right? That's all communication.
SPEAKER_02But it's also how do you engage? How how how do you engage? Again, this is the advantage of human beings over AI. I mean, are you do you have an open do you have an open posture? Are you looking people, are you looking people in the eye, each person in the eye? Another, another bad, uh bad hire avoided was uh we were working with a superintendent. We brought him in for an interview. There was a three-person panel, and there, and and the woman that he was going to be working for, yep, he looked at the eye of the of the guy on the right and looked in the eye, and the guy on the left would never look at the woman in the eye and and would not answer her questions directly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was thinking of one where uh this is years ago, a candidate once again was doing a collaborative interview. There's probably five or six people in there after the interview, and he did it's like a second or third interview. It was like, you if you get past this one, you're hired, right? He gave everybody hugs. Do you remember that? It wasn't it wasn't even one of our candidates. It was just uh it was another, but he gave everybody hugs. It's like it was just okay. Is this like this guy? Okay, I can deal with a fist bumper, you know, in the office, but I can't deal with a hugger. You know what I mean? So we you and I we gotta talk about that.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, that's uh that's a big that's kind of a big deal for me. I we gotta talk about that, John.
SPEAKER_01I like to I like to hug it out, you know. He's gonna send me a letter for defamation or something, probably.
SPEAKER_02But I mean, these these are all these are all really, really cool stories. I mean, we I mean, I I don't even talk about the obvious ones. I mean, I had one, I had one person that I had a a president and a vice president final interview, and the person showed up in in yoga pants and a and a t-shirt after after work after working out. Yoga pants, t-shirt for an executive position. I mean, these things should be without going without saying. It's all but it's also it's also about just having people skills, looking people in the eye, you know, um you know, having having an open stance versus a f uh a closed stance, mimicking their pace, not mimicking their accent. I'm really good at that, mimicking accents, but mimicking the you're kind of like Kamala. Yeah, mimicking, mimicking the pace of conversation. If they talk fast, you talk fast right back to them. If they're talking slow, you talk slow back to them.
SPEAKER_00We have been unburdened by what has been burdened.
SPEAKER_02We have burdened by what has been gin. Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. We got unburdened from Kamala, though, didn't we? We sure did. I mean, that would have been a really bad hire for the United States of America. Oh, no kidding. I mean, and there were some red flags there, right? Big red flags, just a couple, maybe. Borders are that never went to the border, right? Yep. Yeah, I've never been to Europe either, but uh, you know, I mean, let's let's think about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So so we as Americans have m made some really, really bad hires, but well, we see this, you know, in the political theater, but we also see see this on the private entity side, right? Where there are usually red flags. Right. There usually are red flags. So how can so so let me ask you this question. I thought I was the one asking questions.
SPEAKER_02I know, I'm I'm kind of it's okay. You go ahead. How how can what are some other ways in which within the interview process, what are some other ways that we can we can avoid bad hires? Because bad hires are expensive. Working with a good recruiter. We'll talk more about that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that when you have a good recruiter that that you actually partner with and they partner with you and the relationship is going well, when that candidate when we're first qualifying that candidate, you know, they give us a bunch of information. We give you know most of that information over to the company. And then that hiring authority can also ask them some of those same questions to see if there's consistency. Because that's one of the biggest ways you kind of figure out lies. You figure out lies if there's an inconsistency. So we have this happen a lot where we'll qualify a candidate, they'll tell us why they're looking, and we'll obviously communicate that to the company. And then the company will ask them that same question, maybe a few days later in the interview. And then that candidate will give them a different answer. There's an inconsistency there. So sometimes that can be a red flag, or sometimes we just have to kind of dig in more into that. And that's where we talk to the candidate. Like, hey, you told me this, but you told the company this. Well, no, both are true. Or, you know, like there's in so if there's inconsistencies, and that's where we have this happen a lot. We're like, hey, they told us this, or they told us they wanted 95. Now they're telling you 110. You know, I don't know what's going on here. You know what I mean? Like there's there's an inconsistency there.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes there's legitimate reasons for that. Like there maybe the job description wasn't quite right or whatever, like that. But of course, yes.
SPEAKER_01I mean, and and that's a but if you have like three or four inconsistencies piling up, you probably got a Christy Nome situation at your hands.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's what she's gonna sue me. Well, she probably is. She's gonna sue me. And I voted for Christy Noam, but I was disappointed with a couple of the things that she did for sure. So I mean, here here's the here's the reality is that we're not gonna hit it out of the park 100% of the time, but we can use our we can use our minds and we can use good questions, good qualifying questions, good good interview practices and procedures. We can we can do some investigation on our side before we make the hire to make sure that the hire is gonna stick, right? Because that's really what we want. We want, we want long-term, we we want long-term relationships, long-term hires. Yeah, we want the hire, yeah, we want long-term results, right? What about when they don't work out after they've hired? After they've hired.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, and that unfortunately does happen uh sometimes. Uh thankfully, not as much as most people would think it does happen. But uh usually when that happens, we have a process. I like to get an understanding from the candidate and get an understanding from the company. And I will tell you about 90% of the time, it's two different stories. It's the candidate 90% of the time blames it on the company, and the company 90% of the time blames it on the candidate. And hopefully, you know, it's sometimes it's hard to get down to the truth. Sometimes it is a candidate's fault, sometimes it is a company's fault. Maybe we just signed up a new client, we think they're good, and all of a sudden they turn out to be a hornet's nest, right? Or, you know, there's so when it doesn't work out and we're involved, that's where I tell all my recruiters when this happens, like, okay, that's that that sucks. It does. But let's go and let's have some, let's do some investigating. Because if we gave the company a bad candidate, of course we're gonna back that up. We're gonna do our best to back that up, depending on how, you know, there's a lot of contractual things there, but we're gonna do our best to to treat them fair. And that looks different. It's not always a replacement, some, sometimes it is, sometimes it's a percentage. You know, our goal is to is to work through that process. Um, but sometimes we're like, hey, like you had one, you one of your last placements at the previous place where they hired this guy for for the for a specific job a week or two later, they they changed it and we found that out. We're like, no, we're not gonna replace that candidate because you hired them as a shop manager and you put them in out in the field running work, and they were there as a shop manager, they're not a superintendent, and like you completely switch up the contract. Like, like that it doesn't work that way. So, like when it does happen, it's not fun. Um, but some of my best clients that I've ever worked with, I would be lying if I say that we batted 100% you know, over 10 years, over 10 years.
SPEAKER_02I've I I can count what on on one hand how many candidates I've had to replace, and only one of them was within was within the 30 was within the 30-day contract. Um, so basically 80%, 80%, 80% of my 80% of my placements um that people are wanting to have a replacement candidate was outside of that agreement. And the way that we and the way that we deal with that is is that again, we do the investigation, but we always tell people we're gonna treat you fair because what we want to be is an extension of your Yeah, if we don't treat you fair, you're not gonna work with us. You're not gonna work with us.
SPEAKER_01We want to keep that relationship. It's that simple, but also treat me fair. Okay, you know, that's the other thing. Like, like anytime like we we've had this happen, like we just had one happen recently, and it was way beyond the guarantee period, way beyond it. And this company was like, I would say they were kind of coming at us, like like they were, like, like they were coming at us, and I was we were trying to figure it out. We're like, no, we'll we'll work with you guys, we'll absolutely work with you guys. But at the same token, you guys hired them. We didn't do anything wrong. We brought you the person, you guys interviewed them three times. So it's a two-way street. It's not just us treating you fair, it's you treating us fair. It's a relationship. Just like if you buy something from a vendor or you're working on a project, something doesn't go right. If the GC's a prick to you, you're not gonna, you know, like you're not gonna work with them, even if it was your fault, if they're just being a prick and you know, like it's the same thing in our world.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is absolutely it's uh absolutely, and that's why we that's why I mean we most of our hires, most of our hires from last year, I took a look at the statistics. 83% of them, it was 83%, 83% of them were repeat clients. Why? Because we treat people right, we do our due diligence, we try to do everything we contractually are supposed to do, and even beyond and even beyond the contract, we want to make sure that we partner with companies to make very, very good decisions. And when the decisions go awry, we try to work with them to try to help them, you know, make it right. And that's that's what we really, really want to do. And that's why we have these long-term relationships with these clients, that's why they come back to us time and time again. It's kind of like a marriage, and sometimes better than a marriage, you know, but not I I haven't had that bad experience, but till death do us part. Yeah, yeah, that that's that's right.
SPEAKER_01Through the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, John, let's kind of wrap this up. I mean, just to wrap this up, what's one piece of advice you you have for for people? And then I have one to kind of finish us off for people.
SPEAKER_02Um, I I I'll just say it again. Make sure that you're make sure that the way that you want to present yourself to the world is reflected on all your social media that your grandma would be proud of what you have out there.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and I'll wrap this up. Just make sure and hide your dogs. And um I really appreciate you guys joining us on this creative adventure. We've got a multitude of episodes coming down the pipeline. We're gonna bring on a number of special guests. Some of them are pretty well known locally, one of them is well known nationally, and uh, we've got a lot of people in the pipeline that want to get on this thing. So keep an eye out. This is the Built on Solid Rock Podcast. Uh today I'm your host, Sean Bowen, my co host, Shor Amigo, John Chisholm. Peace out until next time.
