Death, Taxes, and Bad Hires

Death, Taxes, and Bad Hires

Why the Right Hiring Strategy Changes Everything

There are a few things in business you can count on.

Death.
Taxes.
And if you are not intentional about hiring… bad hires.

In our latest Built on Solid Rock podcast episode, “Death, Taxes, and Bad Hires,” we break down a reality most business owners learn the hard way:

Hiring is not just an HR function.
It is one of the most important business decisions you will make.

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John Chisham

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome again to our next uh built on solid rock podcast. I'm John Chisholm. I'm here with my compadre Sean Bowen. Welcome, Sean. Guten Morgan. Guten Morgan. We just got the sad news that uh Chuck Norris finally uh found uh something and someone that he couldn't defeat.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Death. Well, you know what they say, right? There's three things guaranteed in life death, taxes, and a bad hire. But I want to do something in remembrance of Chuck Norris here.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

RIP, Chuck. Yeah, Chuck. Uh Chuck's a Chuck was a good guy. Um reminds me a lot of my youth coming up. I uh I'm said I'm I'm sad to say, I wonder if he's gonna kick down Heaven's door.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Well, you know what? I guess uh time will tell, but uh what are we doing here today?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Oh well I just I just had to I just had to bring that up and mention it a little bit. Yeah. I I I think that I I think that we uh we kind of went uh uh gangbusters on our first three podcasts. Uh we're getting lots of good responses and results out there from from what we talked about. People are commenting on it, they're they enjoyed it. I guess uh today's topic, just to start off with, is kind of just uh, I don't know if we ever had a chance to kind of kind of discuss why why are we doing this? I mean, what is it about podcasting that and uh and and taking up this this time talking about topics, talk talking about, I mean, what what is a built on solid rock podcast? What's that gonna look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

That's a great question, and I've put uh a lot of thought into this. I I know you have too. Actually, I know you lost sleep last night thinking about this podcast, which is true, just a little bit. But I look at the Built on Solid Rock podcasts kind of like life. You know, we're gonna figure it out as we move on, but uh where where we're gonna go with it is, and I've talked to a number of potential guests, but um I think we're gonna talk about a lot of things. It could be recruiting, it could be business, it could be ooh, some maybe some interesting topics. It could be politics, it could be real religion, it could be, you know, uh current events. And I think um in my mind, it's a creative adventure. So I'm kind of curious about what you think.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, I mean, I I agree. I I think that we talk about what interests us. I mean, I remember back in the day, Rush Limbaugh, you know, this this shows about this shows about me and what interests me, and whatever interests me is gonna interest the people that are listening and and and looking it up. I mean, we literally, day to day, um, we, you and I both talk on the phone a lot every day. We talk to a lot of different people every single day. We talk to vendors, we talk to business owners, we talk to potential candidates, we talk to recruiters that might want to come to work for us, and we we we hear a lot of things, we get a lot of we talk to a lot of people from Pakistan who are trying to scam us, though, too. Yeah, but we get a lot of, but we but yeah, I mean we get a lot of insight though, because as you talk to people and you interact with them, you get a lot of interesting conversations that you have on a daily basis, just really, really kind of I don't know, it it it kind of enlightens me a little bit, you know, kind of makes me think a lot. Um, as I as I meet people from all over the world, even even from Pakistan, all over the world, um, all over the country, all you know, different neighborhoods, different communities, and stuff like that. Just the just the differences in diversity, and I'm not talking about DEI, but the diversity of of people from from the West Coast to the East Coast, from the north to the south, different states, different, I mean, just it's just it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Well, these are, you know, these are war stories, right? Like I had a grandpa who, and as I mentioned in our last uh one of our last episodes, I had a grandpa who served in World War II, and he died when I was probably nine or ten. But now that I'm older, I'm like, man, I wish I had the opportunity, right, to sit down and have a conversation. Like, what was it like? And so now um our you know, the question is the stories that we have, are they as interesting as a World War II vet? Probably not, but these are stories that to us are abnorm are completely normal, right? We don't even really think of them as interesting at times. But um, yeah, so I think uh so what are we gonna talk about today?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Well, we've got lots of topics that that I've got that I've got written down. You know, I was up all night last night, as you meant as you mentioned. I know. And just some things that have come into my head, but I mean I I think I think one thing that we can talk about that that certainly would resonate with a lot of different a lot of different people out there, especially as we are recruiters, is it's just this idea of we built this business from the ground up. We're entrepreneurs before we're I mean, even before we're recruiters, we're entrepreneurs. So I think that one of the things that we could be could could be really, really helpful is just to kind of reflect on our journey. We we've done we've done that a little bit, but reflect reflecting on our journey and and kind of the value, even the value that we could add to other companies, um, to other people that are going through the same process that we just went through. I mean, that's not really a question, but it that that's just a thought process.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, there's uh there's a lot there. I mean, you know, we started out just to kind of as a frame of reference, we started out as a two-man band. And people asked me, how many people do you have today? And I don't know, it depends on the day. I think we're up to you know about 20 full-time staff or 20 full-time people. Um, early on in the game, you know, we grew fast, uh, probably grew faster at times than what we should have. Obviously, you make bad hires. I think we're gonna talk about that today. We made some bad hires, made some really good hires. Um and uh, but now as we continue to evolve as a company, and I know you and I talk about this quite frequently, is that now we're like, okay, we've got this foundation built, right? And when I say foundation, there's there's a lot there. There's the culture, there's maintaining the culture, there's um all of the things, all of those nitty gritty things that it takes to run. I don't care if you're running uh Dean's Weens, which is a uh hot dog place, so check them out, or if you're running a recruiting shop, you have to have a foundation. But now we're kind of getting to a point to where, you know, we're like, okay, we've grown really good in terms of numbers, but now I see our trajectory kind of changing with a hyper focus on scaling with what we have, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

And then and that and that's the key is scaling and how how do you and how to scale properly. And that's and that's really the kind of the business that we're in, right? I mean, the the business that we're in is we've helped multiple companies in our two years, we've helped multiple multiple companies scale. We've helped multiple companies build new, literally build new offices, um, and staff those and staff those offices. That's that's what we do. And I I think I think that um learning these things is a is a is a pro is a is a real real process that we are continually learning and we're continually growing, not just um manpower-wise, but also growing philosophically. The idea of the vision of the business, the idea of the the purpose of the business, the the idea that it's more than just it's more than just uh something that we do from eight to five every single day. It's it's almost like how do I describe it? It's a it's a living, breathing organism.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

It's growing. It's a life, it's really a lifestyle. Yeah. I mean, and that's how I've always, well, at least for you know, I've been recruiting, it'll be 11 years here in May. Um, and that's a long time. It, you know, it's a really long time. For a recruiter, it's a it's a it's a lifetime, really. And and and to me, the more that I'm in this, in this game, in this recruiting game, the more I realize how important it is to focus on those small things. And we talk about these, especially right now, we talk about these daily. Client building really solid client relationships because anybody can go out there and get companies signed up. And we do a really good job at that. We can do a better job at that. But now it's like, no, let's work with the right clients, right? Let's not work with the clients that are that are gonna jerk us around on the feed, that are gonna, you know, not commit to interviewing any candidates. And let's focus on our clients that treat us with mutual respect. Let's really build out those relationships. And our goal, and this is when you were when you and I were full-time on a desk, the companies that we were working with ended up firing our competition because of the relationship we had with them, but also because of the results that that we were delivering. Um, you can also kind of get into, you know, I'm looking under the engine now, right? Just in the whole recruiting process in and of itself, and why our vision is becoming clear is like, you know, when um like we want companies, if you're gonna work with us, work with us. What does that look like? That looks like, hey, if you want to give somebody an offer, let us run with the offer, give us the offer first. I mean, these are small things, but there's reasons behind all of these things that are benefit to that company. And I I don't know if I'm saying on topic or off topic, but um to me, the longer that we're in this, the vision is becoming so clear. Now it's now now we have to impute this, right? Impute this onto our team.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Right, right. And that's and that's a huge, that's a huge thing. So one of the things that just kind of popped into my mind as as you were as you were talking is is that re the idea of recruiters versus headhunters, not really, really an interesting topic so much. But also, I I like to position ourselves more as like business advisors. I don't like I hate the word consultant. And the reason I hate the word consultant is it's almost like uh those that can't do teach, those that can't find a steady job, consult, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

I mean, yep, and it's usually, you know, if their name is John Doe, it's John Joe, John Doe Consulting, and he's been doing that for 10 years and he's had five other jobs in those 10 years for like a year, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

And so, and so uh it's it's people that think that they found a better way. And and by the way, if you if you're out there right now selling recruiting products, saying that you found a better way or that you found the way to do it, I I think you're I I I think you're mentally ill or unstable or a liar, right? Go see a doctor. Yeah, go see a doctor. But I mean, but just kind of bringing that back around to kind of our process and everything like that, I I want to make a statement and and I want you to respond to it. What happens if I don't want to respond to it? Well, you're gonna have to respond to it some way or another. You can say I don't want to respond to it, but okay, which is a response in and of itself. Which is a response in and of itself. So, I mean, I think that I think most companies don't have a talent problem or a talent acquisition problem. They have a process problem or an urgency problem or a leadership problem. And we run into this every single day. And something that you said triggered me there. And you said that you said that you work with companies and you want them to work in our in our way. And the reason is is because most companies, the hiring is their number one issue, and we're professionals at getting people hired. I mean, that's what we are, that's what we do. Um, and helping companies along with that process. So, talk a little bit about that. I mean, what I mean, are are are are companies actually like losing candidates or are they just pushing them away?

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Well, you know, here's and you and I see this firsthand. If you one bad hire can change the whole thing, one good hire can change the whole thing. So hiring is the epicenter, is the nucleus of running a good business, right? Like hiring good people, right? Right. And there's a process within that. Um, and so there there's a lot here. I think you're right. There is leadership problems, there are certainly processes, prop, pro processes. Is it processes? Processes, processes, okay. Whatever you want. I just want to make sure. I know you're a doctor, so I want to I want to make sure that like what I'm saying is true here. But there's a lot of these issues that we see in the day-to-day that where companies are really bad at hiring. Our goal, and our you know, when when when we partner with the companies to make that as smooth of a process as possible. And what you see a lot of the times, you have and and if there's any other recruiters listening to this, you know what I'm talking about. These long drawn-out interviews, right? Where there's three, four, five interview processes, and then you have to meet, you have to go meet my dog and see if my dog likes you. If my dog doesn't like you, then I'm not gonna hire you. You have to take this test. There's all these things, but here's what there's so yes, there's a hole, there's a hole within the hiring process for a lot of organizations. Our goal is to come in there and fill that gap and teach you how to hire.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

It's a broken process. So, like, for example, we have we have ZipRecruiter, and what's their and what's and and what's their tagline?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, they put they run it on the radio. I'm actually gonna be suing them um because it's false advertising, but hey, have a qualified candidate within what is it, 24 or 48 hours? Within one, it's within one day.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah. A qualified candidate. Well, what do they identify as a qualified candidate? Well, that's the question. And and that's the big question. And and something that we're gonna talk about in depth in another episode is about AI, using AI and hiring. But but the advantage of using a recruiter um as a as a extension of your company, um, as opposed to hiring, say, an in an in-house recruiter, um, hiring, hiring people like Solid Rock Recruiting in in the specific industries that we work in is a benefit to the company.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Why? Well, it's a benefit because you're you're you're getting professionals who understand your industry. They understand what type of work you do, they understand what type of candidates you do. But also, the other thing is that we don't just understand what you do, we want to understand who you are as a company, right? Because not every candidate, even if a candidate has all the skill sets that you're looking for, but if they do not, if they're not a good culture fit, then why the heck would you hire them? I guess unless if you're really desperate, you might pull the trigger on them. But um, this is where I and I know there's other firms that are out there doing this, um, and I'm connected to with some of those business owners, but this is where partnering with someone like Solid Rock Recruiting or another firm that holds up to these same standards is like if I'm talking to you, if you're a business owner, I want to know why you're looking, right? That's the biggest reason why. I want actually want to take time to listen and to have a full understanding of why you're looking and when do you need this person by it? So, like that right there, that simple question and understanding that is simple. But there's a lot of recruiters, they'll have a candidate and they'll just try and sell you somebody without understanding what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Again, getting under the hood even further as business consultants, so to speak, is that we want to look underneath the hood and even talk about your hiring process and where that and where that hiring process has left you fall shall falling short. Why is it that you're not attracting the good the good talent? Why is it that you're why is it that you're looking for this position, looking for this role? Um, what is your hiring, what is your hiring process? What does your hiring process look like? Does it can we can we help you with some efficiencies in that hiring process? Um, because the reality is that the people that the people that wind up on your desk um from ZipRecruiter or from Indeed, those are the leftovers. Talk a little bit about that because the reality is that our process is different. Our process is outbound, going after candidates that may or may not be looking for anything, but then we ask them questions and agitate insight, right? And they and they say, hmm, what could be better than what I have right now? What is there something out there better than than than what I have?

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, I mean, we could probably do a two-hour two-hour episode on just the process of that. But I think where you're going at here is, you know, you, you know, every now, you know, what is it? A broken clock is right twice a day, and every now and then a blind squirrel finds a nut. That's kind of the way I look at ZipRecruiter and Indeed. Those things can work. Where where we come in at is first and foremost, I want to partner with companies that have an urgent need. Here's the reality: no company wants to pay a recruiting fee. No, nobody wants, and I understand that. I don't want to pay a recruiting fee. Why the hell would any of my clients want to pay a recruiting fee? So they're only coming to us and and engaging in our service if they actually have a need, right? Now, there's two reasons why companies hire, okay? That's to make money or save money. Those are the two core reasons why companies hire to make money or save money. So when when we we want to partner with companies that are what we say over a barrel, they're like, hey, we've exhausted our efforts, we've we've looked for the sloppy seconds on all the job boards, we've done all of these things, we've we've looked at all of our internal referrals. We can't find anybody. Now it's time to hire a recruiter. That's when you come to us. Okay. Those are the companies that we work best with because first and foremost, they actually have a need. They're they're willing to write a check. That's a reality, right? I don't want my clients to write a check to me if they don't have to. Right. If if you can go out and find someone, go out and do it. Okay. Um, but this is the other thing. Going to the whole job board thing in our in our approach is that we are head hunters. So we don't wait for people to come to us. Sometimes that does happen. I wish it happened more than what it did, but that's the nature of sales. We go out there and we actively source candidates. I don't care if they're looking or not looking, that's irrelevant. We go out there and actively hunt people through a lot of methodologies. It's not just picking up the phone, it's not just texting, it's not just emailing. There's a lot of other methods, but we actually have the time to go out and do those things. We actually have the time to say, you know what, I found 50 people in a 50 mile radius that do what you do. I'm gonna call, text, and email every single one of them. No business owner, no, and and by the way, no in-house recruiter at a company is going to do that. That's what we do. That's value that we bring. We want to bring what we call the high-hanging fruit. And we don't get paid unless we find somebody like that. And I don't want to get paid unless I find someone like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I want to be paid on my results. All right. And that's and that's why we say don't, don't, don't trust us, test us. That's that's what that's what we do. So, like an internal recruiter is is is is a great is a great source if what you want is somebody to review resumes and and take a look at resumes and and kind of pick and choose the good the the good ones and the bad ones. And if you want to pay them an $80,000 a year salary or and and their health insurance.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Hey, pay me the eighty thousand dollars a year after a few placements, you know to pay me health insurance or anything, and I will probably get get you better results. Much better results are or are I I I think so. So if you want to fire your in-house uh recruiters, give us a call. We will gladly replace them.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Well, no, and again, though, we're not encouraging you to fire them because we work with a lot of our companies, we work with internal HR teams. We do, yeah. But HR teams are just that. They're HR teams. You know, HR people don't necessarily make good recruiters. That's why I don't hire any HR people here. So an HR person is really, really good at doing HR things, you know, onboarding people, explaining to them the company culture, taking them through the employee handbook, making sure they understand what their health insurance looks like, doing all those kind of things. But what they're not good at is they're not good at picking up the phone and identifying a really, really good candidate and going through a process with them to make sure before they even take a look at the resume that they're already a good fit, that they've already been pre-selected.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I think what you're pointing out here is that there are holes within the hiring process that that we see on a daily basis. And if you're willing to partner with us, and this is not me begging for business, this is more of us communicating our message, is that we help fill those, whether whether you're having issues, you know, here's a lot of the things that we find out companies take too long to interview. Even if they have an urgent need, they take too long. Companies are not finding the right people, so they have a high turnover rate. Maybe their culture is great, but they're but they but they're not finding the right people. Um, our goal is to partner with companies that want to partner with us, work with us, okay, join, join together with us on on this process and let us kind of drive it. We don't go into your business telling you how to estimate or what projects that, you know, what projects to kind of estimate on. We go into we we're gonna have to cut this out, you guys. There's too much shit going on, you guys. Okay. What we want to do is we want to find companies that are gonna trust our expertise and work with us on our process because we know what works best, we know what works, and we will and we know what doesn't work. And when companies join us, that's where magical things happen. That's where they can expand into new regions, that's where they can expand their their their team with the right people. And I could point to 50 different companies where they have say. You know what, we're gonna let you guys kind of drive this thing. And I'm not kidding you, there's a 90% success rate with those companies that let us do our thing because we're specialists at it. I think that's the big thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

And why are we specialists? And what do we do that's different than the other than other recruiting firms? And then when we partner and we consult with a company, we truly understand what they're looking for. And we're able then to, when we're sourcing candidates, we're able to ask them the right kind of questions. When we say that we're agitators of insight, we're able to ask them the right kind of questions to discover not only if they've got the right kind of hard skill set, but if they've got the right soft skill set that fits within the that fits within the culture. And then bottom line, as you mentioned, kind of, and you and you gave me this, again, you gave me this idea, but again, it's also with urgency. It's also dealing with urgency. So when we're talking to a candidate, when when are you ready to make a change? Are you going to make a change if the right opportunity comes along? And the right opportunities A, B, C, D, and E, and this and this comes along, are you ready to make a change? Are you genuinely? Can you see yourself going into the office saying, Um, I'm I've I've found something different, I'm moving on. This is my two-week notice. And and that guy that you've been hunting with or you've been out golfing with for the last 10 years, um, and it is sitting across the table from you, are you really truly ready to make that change before we go into this process so deeply?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And those are there's so many examples of really, I call it kind of grinding down or nailing down like that process right there. And that's where we come in at. We are truly the middleman, the middleman, middle woman. We have some women too, where we go in there and we do a lot of things behind the scenes that benefit both the company and the candidate that we are representing. And it hopefully saves time, it hopefully will help you make a good hire, or it will help you not hire someone that that you shouldn't, right? We've done that a lot. Hey, we just checked references on this person. I don't think you should hire them. So I um there there's a lot within this whole process. The hiring process right now, kind of generally speaking, is broken. It is broken. Um, there's some companies that do really well. Our job is to go and fix a broken hiring process. Yeah, help you find the right people, but also help with the process of this, consult with you on this. And that's what we do, and that's why you're gonna pay us because we're gonna do a really darn good job.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Really, really from start to finish. We're save, we're saving you time. We talked about um bottom line is there's people hire for people hire for two different reasons, and they hire you to save money or to make money, right? And so we're hiring a good recruiter saves time, it saves money because hopefully, and again, we're in a people business, so we do the very best that we can. Sometimes there's still failures out there for sure. Yeah, of course, but we try to do the best that we can to save companies time and money away from making those bad hires. We're trying to help them make good hires on a positive basis that's gonna help them on their bottom line and on their top line. That's the key. That's the key. And so this has been a real enjoyable podcast. I mean, we've dug into has it? Oh, it has been. We've dug deep on, we've we've we've kind of started digging a little bit, breaking the surface a little bit on a couple really important topics as to what we do. Um, I hope, I hope it's interesting. I hope it's helpful. But I think it's time to lock this one down a little bit and just say, hey, um, good good afternoon, good night, and good morning.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Good evening. Yeah, with that that one. We'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

We are the Built on Solid Rock podcast sponsored by Dean's Wiens. If you like good wieners, go to Dean's Wiens, they're the best in the business. Thank you.